Boat Buying Advice

The following information containing boat buying and selling advice was written by me whilst I owned and operated Sydney Boat Sales on Sydney Harbour for 12 years. It is in the process of being updated.

Buying a Boat Guide-
I Want to Buy a Boat!Information from Magazines & Internet Sites Done with Reading?Types of Boats Some Boat Industry Background At The Brokerage Steel Boats Timber Boats Aluminium Boats Fibreglass Boats Ferro Boats Engines Electrics LPG Rigging Trailer Boats Boat Share New Boats What Makes a Good Boat?The Buying Process The Offer Test Drives Finance Other Costs The Survey The Slipping Moorings Marina Moorings Documentation Encumbrances Registration Ownership The Big Day What Next?After Sales Services Safety – Be Prepared
I Want to Buy a Boat!
Having just woken up this morning, you looked out at the clear blue sky, and said to yourself, “A boat would be nice”. Yes, boats are great. No traffic lights, huge open spaces, fresh air and sun, just kicking back and enjoying your hard earned time off. For most of us buying a boat represents the realization of a dream, and perhaps a new beginning. By ensuring that you take certain steps it will be an enjoyable pastime or lifestyle which will give you and your family a lot of pleasurable moments – and the not so enjoyable ones will make great pub or dinner stories – the waves always get bigger and bigger! These notes are not intended to be the a-z of boat buying, just a few notes to give you some impartial help, and to highlight some important points. I have tried to give you some guidance on what to consider when deciding if the boat you are looking at is going to give the surveyor writer’s cramp. Therefore, there are some areas I have highlighted with regard to condition/maintenance. However, I am not a surveyor but when looking at boats, you will have to assess their condition before you make an offer. This guide should give you some pointers. The guide’s main purpose is to explain the boat buying process and the factors, which can determine the type of boat you eventually buy. Over time I have realized how often, we in the boating industry, take it for granted that potential clients come down fully armed with their definitions of boating terms. Bow, stern, port, starboard, keel, and beam, are not words used in everyday conversation – unless you enjoy drinking on your own! What should be a pleasurable experience can become confusing and frustrating. To avoid turning a dream into a logistical nightmare take the time to read these notes.
Information from Magazines & Internet Sites
First of all, you probably dont know that much about the different makes of boats. Holden’s, Fords, etc, we all know what they look like – but what does the inside of a 27 Northshore look like, or how much space is there inside a 28 Bertram. So where do you start? Well, you can begin by visiting our web site of course @ www.sydneyboats.com.au The most popular major monthly national boating magazine is Trade-A-Boat lists all the boats that are currently advertised for sale, as does their website, Boat Point. For yachties I would also recommend ‘Cruising Helmsman’ which comes out monthly. This magazine is dedicated to yachting, and contains excellent articles about yachts, tests and services. Another excellent publication is Sydney Afloat” this is a free publication which comes out monthly, and can be obtained from most marinas, and boat accessory shops. It is a general publication with articles, services, and boating information of a general nature.
Done the Reading, Now for the Real Thing!
So where do you go to buy a boat? If you want to buy a used boat you can either visit a boat broker or buy a boat privately. The majority of brokers are based at marinas. How do you find a boat broker?Boat Brokers are usually experienced boaties. The majority of us are members of the Boating Industry Association, within which there is the Marine Brokers Association of NSW. We follow approved guidelines, have a code of ethics, and are audited once a year by the Boating Industry Association. Be wary of buying a boat from a broker who does not appear to be experienced in the type of boat you may be buying, as he may not give you the correct advice. You will also find all the brokers advertising in the Trade-a-Boat magazine and on http://www.boatpoint.com.au Logistically, buying a boat is much harder than buying any other type of purchase, except perhaps a submarine, a house in Outer Mongolia, or a pink elephant that speaks 3 languages. This is because boating has a natural element, which changes quickly (tides and winds), and the industry is quite small which does not allow for large staff numbers. So it is not always possible to give Macdonalds type instant service. The only reason I emphasise this is so that you do not rush out buy a boat only to come away disillusioned. It is not because we are not interested – we are. However, on sunny days it sometimes appears as if everybody wants to buy a boat at the same time. On a sunny day who can blame you! Boat brokers normally work by appointment, as many of their boats will be on the owners moorings, up and down the river, harbour, etc. NOTE: A mooring is a block of concrete on the riverbed to which a length of chain is attached to which the boat is tied to. A berth is a floating fixture at a marina to which the boat is tied alongside. To save yourself a wasted journey, call first and make an appointment. Therefore, you need the time to get out to the boat you want to look at. The broker will take you there in his own boat. A little patience is a necessity. Come dressed to look at boats; high heels are not a good idea, neither is a dinner jacket. We are limited to how many people can be taken out at one time. We do not take out very young children; the wash from passing boats at weekends can cause a lot of movement on boats, this can be potentially dangerous (we were recently expected to take out a 3 month old baby complete with pram – not a good idea!). The best thing to do is ring the broker first and have a chat to him or her, about what it is you are looking for in a boat. I cannot see the point in rushing out to look at just one boat. Treat it as a learning experience and take the time to listen to the broker. Qualified Brokers will not normally give you the hard sell. They will show you a boat, describe its uses, and perhaps explain to you that a round the world dream is not too sensible in a 24 foot yacht that have never seen the entrance to Sydney harbour. We love boating, and most brokers have a natural passion for boating. They will give you good advice, even though you may not end up buying a boat from him or her. So after much use of the Gregory’s you finally find the broker! Marinas have been around for a long-time, but recent housing development means they are usually tightly hemmed in. Be prepared for parking difficulties. At the Marina, instead of finding a suit garmented smiling individual with a tie, and mirror finish shoes, you may find the office deserted. He is probably out on the water still struggling to get a potential client and his family, neighbours and the mate who knows everything off a boat, which is swinging widely about on its mooring. So a 9.00 a.m. appointment may mean 9.15. Tides, winds etc do not run to exact timetables so be prepared for delays.
Types of Boats
So you want a boat.. But what type?To enjoy your boating, first decide what it is you are going to do with the boat, and then look for a boat to match. Yacht, ketch, sloop rig, flybridge cruiser, that big white one you saw on TV last night what sort of boat do you want? The first definition is Power or Sail. Power for those of you that do not want to be relying on the wind, with ropes and sails flying about. Sail for those of you who want the excitement of mastering the wind and dream about sailing the seven seas. Your budget, length of boat, its use, age, style are of course other important considerations. The table I have complied is a short summary of the various design types and their common uses. It is by no means all-inclusive but it will give you some ideas. I have also added some common makes so you can look them up on www.boatpoint.com.au.

TypeSuitabilitySome ExamplesYACHT – sloop rig Aft cockpit/Centre cockpitMost common rig – suits all purposes.Dufour,Northshore, Compass, Bavaria, Roberts, Beneteau, Eastcoast, Jarkan, MottleYACHT- ketch rigMore suited for off – shore cruisingDuncanson, Spray, Roberts, PughCATAMARANS – SAILCruising/CharterCrowther, SeawindFLYBRIDGE CRUISERRecreational/Fishing & off-shoreMariner, Bertram, Riviera, Cranchi, Silverton, Fairline.SEDAN/DisplacementRecreational Cruising(9 knots)Mariner, Roberts, Cunard, Steber, Clipper, Seacrest.SPORTS CRUISERMostly sheltered waters, ok for outside when swell is manageable.Searay, Bayliner, Regal, Wellcraft, Scarab, Cranchi.
Note: Displacement means a vessel, which normally has a single engine (occasionally 2), and can do a maximum of 9-12 knots. It is designed to push through water rather than semi-plane. A displacement vessel is generally more stable at low speeds than a planing vessel. Plane is where the thrust from the propellers pushes the bow out of the water causing less resistance and hence more speed. Boats come in all shapes and sizes – just like us. They are also constructed out of different materials. Timber, glass-reinforced plastic, aluminium, concrete (ferro), and steel are the main materials used to construct a boat. They all have their advantage and disadvantages, they all suit particular applications. Most folks who come to buy a boat will only buy a boat that is a known brand with a reliable resale value. No problem with that. But if the price is right there is nothing wrong with buying the Taj Mahal on water, even if it is painted pink. Another important point is understanding something about the way, in which the boat industry has developed.
Some Boat Industry Background
In Australia, it has been in the past, very difficult to operate a profitable boat building business. We simply have not had the economies of scale. The recession in the early nineties wiped out a lot of small Australian boat builders. That is why you are perhaps contemplating spending your hard earned dollars on a 20 year old boat, which has had numerous owners, and is not shining like a new pin. However, it also means that your future pride and joy will probably not loose value, and is some cases will actually increase in value. Go and look for a 24-foot yacht only three years old, and apart from some niche Australian makes, there are none. Unless you want to pay for a new foreign import with a consequent high dollar value. By now you should be getting the idea. Boat buying is more akin to house buying than car purchasing-it is a fragmented small industry which in some areas is still coming to terms with the rapidly changing face of business, and the increase in boat ownership.
At The Brokerage
Well you have finally got to the marina, and are looking at the window display at the brokers office, wondering what sort of boat you would like. If you want to go off-shore fishing or for a weekend away with the family – a flybridge cruiser. For cruising around the Sydney harbour, a sports cruiser would be great. If you are into sailing do you want a full keel older style cruising yacht or a modern lightweight fin keel yacht? You will be faced with a multitude of choices. However for most of you the choice will be a fibreglass yacht or powerboat under a hundred thousand dollars. This will mean a boat at least ten years old with consequent apparent aging; some of you may prefer a timber, steel, or even a concrete boat. Why is fibreglass so popular? Fibreglass is a synthetic material, which lasts longer than steel, timber or aluminium. As it is synthetic, it is not continually trying to return to its natural state, i.e. steel will rust, as it trys to return to its ore state, timber will rot, and aluminium will oxidize. Fibreglass is not only popular because it is long lasting, but also because it lends itself to mass production. A mould is made which can then replicate the original design many times. Highly skilled labour is not required to lay fibreglass. Whereas timber construction requires craftsman. Skilled welders weld steel. Aluminium is expensive, and prone to variations in weld quality due to atmospheric conditions. Does this mean you should only buy a fibreglass boat? Not at all. There are a lot of good steel, timber etc boats, that at the right price are excellent value. Usually, you end up buying the boat you fall in love with.
Steel Boats
Steel boats are most commonly built to be able to withstand hitting large immovable objects such as rocks, seabeds, or even quietly snoozing submarines. Yacht owners who intend to sail in waters they are not sure of favour them. Steel is easy to repair, but does have a maintenance factor in that the steel has to be well protected from the ravages of salt and water. Steel can be prone to electrolysis, which is a reaction to all the different metals in the boat, galvanised by the action of the water. A common earthing system with sacrificial anodes (metal blocks bolted to the hull, which are allowed to corrode, and are regularly replaced) needs to be well-maintained in order to prevent excessive thinning of the steel. All steel boats rust, so do not be put off by initial appearances, it may only be surface rust. You need to be concerned about the rust you cannot see. Never buy a steel boat without an out of water inspection by a qualified surveyor. Plate thickness below the waterline, which has been reduced by corrosion, is normally easily repaired. It is severe structural corrosion inside the boat, which may be prohibitively expensive to repair- unless of course the price of the boat takes this into account. Steel boats are excellent for passage making / offshore cruising and should not be discounted because of non-structural rust. When buying a steel boat always insist on an ultra-sound by a professional company. It is very difficult to assess structural corrosion without such a test. It will give you a report detailing the thickness of the steel plate over the under water area. However, if you do find a reduction in steel thickness do not walk away from the sale, the beauty of steel is the ease of repair. Get a quote for the repair from a qualified welding company and, if necessary, renegotiate the sale price. Unless of course the price has already taken the corrosion into account .The other significant factor is the quality of the welds. Unfortunately steel boats are sometimes amateur built using incorrect welding techniques.
Timber Boats
Timber is in theory the best material of all, it is a natural insulator, and has an excellent buoyancy factor. Timber boats normally exude loads of character, which can be very seductive. However, you will have to paint and varnish on a regular basis, but this can also be very relaxing – an option to the garden shed! I would not be too concerned about minor rot above the waterline. But rot to structural members below the waterline may reduce your bank manager to tears, or at least cause hysterical laughter at the bank call centre, as they place you on hold to reassess your rapidly diminishing credit rating. Be careful of marine ply/timber boats, in good condition they are fine, but can be costly and difficult to repair if affected by extensive rot. But there are some great timber boats about, which offer better value than fibreglass or steel. We never seem to have any trouble selling carefully restored timber boats or those with defects being offered at realistic prices. Timber boats have a particular following, and as the price of new boats increases, and consequently so does their second-hand value, then the older timber boats will become more popular. A timber boat is a pure joy to own. A timber boat has a style that fibreglass cannot replicate and a uniqueness that cannot be copied by mass production methods. I love timber boats, and have two timber yachts of my own but I am also aware of the maintenance factor.
Aluminium Boats
Aluminium is becoming more popular, particularly in powerboats. Its advantages are its lightness, and forming qualities, which can produce a good looking boat. The temper of aluminium changes as a material hardens over time. This causes fatigue which manifests itself as small cracks, particularly around weld areas. Aluminium can also be badly affected by electrolysis, more so than steel. Your surveyor will highlight any problems in this area. Another area of concern is that any paint applied to aluminium must use an etch primer (undercoat). If not applied correctly the paint will not adhere to the aluminium, allowing corrosion to rapidly develop. It is doubtful if aluminium will ever become as common as fibreglass as it is very labour intensive to manufacture. Note: Sacrificial anodes are as important on aluminium boats as they are on steel. However, aluminium boats will always have a following from owners who want lightness and speed. Amateur builders do not generally carry out aluminium welding. However, for smaller production boats, which can be mass-produced aluminium is cost effective.
Fibreglass Boats
Fibreglass is king when it comes to popularity. Low-maintenance and light. The first fibreglass boats were built in the 1940’s. Despite its popularity as a boatbuilding material it does age. Osmosis, stress cracks, and faded gel coat will be evident in most fibreglass boats over ten years old. Stress cracks will always appear in highly loaded areas particularly on yachts which have been continuously raced. Expect it, and learn to live with it. Flexing of the gel coat causes it. Gel coat? Well, fibreglass is a mixture of glass strand and a resin, which bonds the strands together. To obtain the smooth finish that you see on fibreglass boats, a thin layer of gel coat is added with a colouring pigment- this gives fibreglass its colour. Because the gel coat layer is quite thin, hairline cracks can appear in high stress areas. Loss of colour due to the affect of ultra-violet rays can make the fibreglass look very aged. A good gel coat restorer will restore the gel coat to a high gloss finish. Fibreglass boats do suffer from a form of water damage, known as osmosis. This is the ingress of water into the fibreglass forming a bubble, and in the extreme a delaminating of the fibreglass. The water is allowed in by a defective manufacturing process, and it then expands into the gel coat. One theory is that the 1973-4 Arab oil embargo, which dramatically increased the price of oil, and therefore the price of resins and plastics, forced manufacturers to look for less expensive materials. Osmosis is therefore normally related to an assembly process defect. However, it is easily repaired, and an accepted fact of life as fibreglass has become the most common construction material. It manifests as a bubble or series of bubbles which when burst let out styrene fluids. In its worst form the whole hull can be covered. Most boats have a few bubbles, which can be ground out and epoxied. Normally the repair may need to be repeated every 2 or 3 years until the worst of the moisture is removed from the hull. There is another less serious form, which can occur when an antifouling coating is applied to a very moisture laden hull, and what looks like very small osmosis bubbles, is in fact only water trapped in the antifoul layers. Very serious osmosis can result in the whole gel coat having to be removed; this form of osmosis should be carefully priced. Severe structural damage because of osmosis is very rare. If it is evident, be wary of proceeding with the sale until a professional repair quotation is obtained. Fibreglass boats also have timber/ply bulkheads and structural members. Your surveyor should check these are not water-damaged. Foam sandwich construction is a favoured construction method of boat builders who want to produce a fast light boat. Your surveyor should ensure that the adhesive bonding is not faulty or damaged. Fibreglass is not painted to provide colour. The colour is put in as a gel when the fibreglass is laid. Therefore, as it fades, the only alternative is to respray the whole boat, or if it is not too bad repolish it. Painting can be quite expensive, and will require regular maintenance, particularly if the deck is painted. If it is sprayed using a “two pack” polyurethane paint then it will increase the value of an older boat. Hand painting a fibreglass boat can reduce its value if not carried out correctly. But if the price is right do not let it put you off what otherwise may be a good boat.
Ferro Boats
Concrete to the rest of the world. A special grade of marine cement which is laid on a steel framework. Usually built in a back garden, and the source of much amusement to the neighbours as the builder realises it will no longer fit his drive and has to be craned out of the back garden. Ferro is either excellent or in the ‘not to be touched with a garden pole’ class. A well-built ferro boat is normally excellent value for money, as they do not attract the higher prices of fibreglass or steel. An inspection by a qualified surveyor is a must for any ferro boat, unless you work for Boral! Ferro boats, like timber boats can be excellent value for money. A well-built Ferro boat can provide as much enjoyment as a fibreglass equivalent, and cost you a lot less. But be careful it is easy to hide a bad repair. A ferro boat consists of a steel hull structure around which cement is laid, no different to a building structure. If it professionally built the steel would have been galvanized and welded areas treated with a protected paint. Cement then has to be laid in the same time frame to ensure conformity of strength. But dont be put off there are plenty of ferro yachts that have sailed around the world, -just buy carefully. As for a ferro powerboat, I have never seen one, but Im sure there is one somewhere!
Engines
Diesel Yachts vs. Petrol Yachts Most yachts over 25 have in-board diesel’s, below that, they normally have outboards. Inboard diesels will provide a more reliable form of propulsion offshore (the propeller is usually further in the water than that of an outboard), a better electrical system, and are difficult to steal. However, an outboard is cheaper to maintain, and can give you more room inside the boat. When buying a yacht up to 25 feet, you are generally speaking, going to find that 80% have outboards. Outboards are much cheaper to maintain than diesel inboards. With an outboard you simply undo it and take it to the mechanic. On most yachts $2,000 will buy you a four stroke outboard, whilst it can cost up to $10,000 to replace an inboard. A four-stroke outboard is far more reliable than a two stroke. They are more environmentally friendly, use unleaded fuel, and are quieter. Unfortunately they are heavier and more expensive than two-stroke outboards. Over 25 yachts are normally fitted with inboard diesels. Diesel engines are compression ignition engines which to ensure reliability require regular fuel filter changes and good batteries to ensure easy starting. If you buy a diesel powered boat is a good investment to immediately change the fuel filters and if possible clean out the fuel tank. Diesel injection pumps have tolerance in microns and require clean fuel to be reliable. A lot can be assessed on a diesel engine just by looking and listening. Blue, black, and white smoke in abundance indicate excessive oil consumption, excessive fuel delivery/restricted air supply/shortage of air, and incomplete combustion-your survey will check all these indicators. Petrol Power Boats Vs Diesel Power Boats The majority of boats under 30 will be petrol. There is nothing wrong with petrol, as long as it is maintained correctly. It will give you more speed, and is quieter. Above 30 for a sedan, or flybridge boat, diesel is more common. On sports boats diesel is normally fitted to 40′ boats and above. Both have good and bad points, and both require regular maintenance. Potential buyers often ask me how many hours an engine has completed. Unless the boat is 0-4 years old I do not think that is a question that should be asked. It would be better to ask about the condition of the engine. I have never yet seen a marine engine worn out, lack of use causes more problems, and can result in excessive internal corrosion. The same wear indicators I described in the yacht section above apply to all diesel engines. The cooling system on any type of engine is particularly prone to blockage from coral growth, and sediment build-up. You will hear the term riser’s and manifolds. The risers are part of the exhaust/cooling system and are an item, which need to be checked/replaced, every 5 years-again depending on use. Your broker should be able to advise you if the owner has invoices to verify their condition. The advantages and disadvantages of petrol Vs diesel are fairly balanced. Petrol engines are smoother, quieter, cost less initially, and faster. Later petrol engines are fitted with electronic fuel infection systems, which increases their reliability. Diesel engines do not have an open fuel system, or an electrical ignition system, but are heavier, nosier, and smoky at start up. Both have their good and bad. A lot depends on what you intend to use the boat for. Stern Drives & Shaft Drives – The Driveline! Powerboats have gearboxes, which are either mounted inside the boats on the back of the engines, or bolted to the rear of the boat (transom). Generally speaking powerboats below thirty feet will have the gearbox in the water, this is known as a stern drive. The majority of mechanics if asked will tell you that it is better to have a shaft drive boat. This is only because they are continually repairing stern drives, which have been badly maintained. A regularly serviced stern drive leg is reliable and trouble free. However, every year it should be removed and items such as the rubber bellows which keeps water away from the shaft drive should be replaced, the gear box oil should also be renewed. Your surveyor when examining the leg should always check for water in the gearbox oil. When carrying out the test drive he should be listening for excessive bearing noise. Driving the boat on full lock and assessing bearing vibration should check the universal joints, which allow the leg to turn through almost 180 degrees. If the boat is not going to be used for long periods, a good tip for stern drives with water intakes in the leg, is to put a set of rubber outboard ears over the intakes. This will prevent coral growth inside the leg. Shaft drives must be checked for engine misalignment excessive gland wear and out of true shafts. These principles also apply to yachts. Engines and drivelines can, particularly on powerboats be very expensive to repair. However, be wary of being too critical and losing a good boat because of an over-zealous inspection-take some time out to understand any reported defects. I have seen buyers reject a boat because of an overrated defect, only to find their next attempted purchase has much the same problems.
Electrics
Common sense applies to the majority of boat electrics. If it looks a total mess then ensure that it is not just old wiring that has not been removed. Ensure your surveyor is qualified to check any 240-volt equipment that is fitted. Most boats will have a sounder and a radio. Do not get too hung up on electrics, as modern systems are getting cheaper all the time, and you will not need a GPS in the Harbour-even though it is a good gadget to impress your friends with!
LPG
Gas cooking/heating systems should comply with NSW Workcover regulations, and be fitted with a compliance plate.
Rigging – Yachts
Definitely a black art this one. Most standing rigging on yachts is of stainless steel. However, stainless steel can be rust affected by lack of air circulation, deformed, fatigued, and stressed-sounds like a day at the office! Your surveyor will advise accordingly. However, some surveyor’s do not seem to take into account how stressed the rigging has been in the past, and automatically condemn every rig. Thats all very well, but a yacht that has never seen a race day, or been outside the Heads, is not going to have been subject to the same stresses and strains as one that has. If you are looking at your budget being blown away because the surveyor has said the rig needs replacing then ask him to explain why.
Trailer Boats
The majority of boats we sell are kept on the water. However, we do sell some trailer powerboats and yachts. Always check the trailer as well as the boat. You do not want the wheels falling off highway up the expressway. Continual immersion in salt water will eventually corrode the wheel bearings. Remove the wheel bearings once a year, clean them with a good degreaser, and then repack them with marine bearing grease. They are normally taper roller bearings so ensure that you refit them with the correct amount of free play- and always fit a new stainless split pin. The larger 2 stroke outboards can be very expensive to repair-always ask a mechanic to check the engine for you-including a compression check. With trailer yachts check the swing or lift keel carefully-particularly if the yacht has been moored for a while-it may be seized.
Boat Share
A relatively new concept. For some people boating is seen as a day out rather than a lifestyle. It is possible to buy a share in a new boat. For further details email us at sales@sydneyboats.com.au.
New Boats
We sell new Cranchi Powerboats. Obviously I think they are the best in the world – go to our web site http://www.sydneyboats.com.au or go www.cranchi.it and make up your own mind.
What Makes A Good Boat?
Well, as I have found out from my experience, every boat has a buyer. Some boats sell quickly, others may take a while. Be realistic, a boat for $30,000 that is 20 years old is not a new boat. A hostile environment continually surrounds boats. Take the overall condition into consideration, do not highlight a particular defect and reject the boat, when the rest of her may be very good. When it comes to choosing your boat, cheap is not always best. It may cost you the purchase price again in repairs. First of all, start with the realisation that when you spend a lot of money for a used boat, youre not going to be happy with an expensive, but well-worn cast off. Youll not only want to bring back some of the shine, but assure some reliability too. You want to feel good about your purchase, and to do that you have to spend more than just the purchase price. In other words, the price is only part of the cost. When evaluating a budget for a used boat, think of price in terms of what a new boat costs, for this puts the matter of cost in its proper perspective. Older boats will require some work. Therefore, take this into account when you are doing your sums. Ok, you have found a boat you like, so what next?
The Buying Process
The Offer This can be difficult, but if the broker has done his job you will know a little bit more about the boat than just its colour. It is the brokers job to get the best possible price for the boat, so do not expect him to push the price down for you. He will play his part for you when discussing your offer with the owner. He should discuss your offer with the owner, and negotiate on his behalf. If your offer is accepted you will be asked to place a deposit. The broker should give you a deposit receipt, which details the conditions of the deposit. These are normally:Subject to a satisfactory surveyA settlement dateOther conditions, as negotiatedThe broker should also confirm the acceptance of the offer in writing to the owner of the vessel. Once your offer has been accepted the broker should not accept any other offers on the vessel, unless the survey is unsatisfactory and you decide not to go ahead.
Test Drives
We do not normally allow test-drives until a deposit is placed. As you can imagine we show a lot of boats to a lot of people. So it is not practical to test drive used boats unless a deposit is placed, then we know the buyer is serious.
Finance
Finance-most finance companies will want to see a survey on an older boat. Generally speaking finance companies are quite happy to lend on a boat. We use BIA Marine Finance; they can be contacted on 02 9843 7000. It is much better to arrange your finance before putting an offer on a boat, as if your finance application is rejected after you have placed your deposit you can lose your deposit.
Other Costs
Here are some average costs:Insurance – 24′ = $400, 30′ = $5-600, 38′ = $800-$1200 per yearMooring Costs (Waterways) = $400-$600 per yearMarina Mooring = $10/foot per monthBerth Costs = $24/foot per monthYearly Anti-foul – 24′ = $1000, 30′ = $1000minMaintenance – single engine inboard = $1000/yearLaying a Mooring = $900Mooring Service = $300
The Survey
It is a good idea to get a survey. Some boats may come with a survey, but this is rare. Older boats will not get insurance cover without a survey. Survey costs (an inspection by a qualified marine professional), are about $22 per foot of length. Some surveyors only inspect the structure of the boat; some do the boat and the engine; ask for our surveyors list. Surveyors will try to price repairs or improvements for you, always get a second opinion. It is difficult to be critical of surveyors because as a broker my job is to sell the boat, and my opinion can be seen as being bias. However, at times I do question the opinion of surveyors if I feel that their report is not justified. It is not the job of the surveyor to negotiate price, nor is he there to compare a used boat that is 20 years old to a new one. He should give you an impartial report, which he is prepared to justify and not walk off in huff if he is asked to explain his findings! The majority of surveyors are realistic and carry out a very through inspection, but there are a few who are doom gloom merchants-these purveyors of doom seem to take great delight in assessing the boat as a new one. However, if you discuss their report with a broker present or your own expert, they will under pressure or extreme torture admit the boat is representative of its year. Always insist on being present for the survey, and treat it as a learning experience. When possible we try to arrange the test drive with the surveyor. If the survey result is worse than expected, then we will renegotiate the price for you. You must always remember you are not buying a new boat. It is not realistic to expect the owner to give you an as-new boat, unless of course the price justifies it. If the result is not satisfactory, and an alternative price / repair cannot be negotiated, then you get your deposit back minus any costs.The notes below are those which we give to potential buyers.SURVEYORS & MECHANICAL ASSESSORS When reading a surveyors report the age and the price offered for the boat are important factors to consider. You cant expect a twenty-year-old boat to be as new and without fault. When a boat is surveyed the surveyor will identify some problems that are cosmetic or easily rectifiable and others that will need attention immediately. You also have to take into account that surveyors are employed to find every fault or defect. You cannot expect an owner to repair faults that are common for the age of boat. It all comes down to price and expectations. Do not expect a vessel which normally sells for $x and is being sold for $x a lot to be in great condition. Older boats have to be refurbished and each owner will be involved in some form of refurbishment.Some common issues on older boats are:YachtsRigging if the age of rigging cannot be proven then some surveyors will tell you it needs replacing. That is a fair comment. But if an owner has been using the yacht with the existing rigging then it is difficult to negotiate the replacement of the rigging.Osmosis: Most older yachts will have osmosis. These days it is easily repaired. It is excessive osmosis that is of serious concern.Chainplate flexing causing deck movement. This is common on older yachts. The security of the chainplates is the concern not the deck flexing.Bolt On Keel to hull Flexing Common, as long as it is not excessive.Power BoatsOsmosis see aboveRisers and manifolds – these cause the greatest problems, A surveyor will take a power boat out for a run. It will perform well, it will not overheat but he will say they need replacing as they are 4 years old. Always a difficult one so be prepared for an owner who will not negotiate on the basis that it is running fine. The best way is to enquire before making your offer and then take the answer into account when you make your offer.Heat exchanger- If there is no documentation to show a service in the last 2 years and even if they are performing well and not causing temperature creep the surveyor may suggest the heat exchanger’s) need servicing. Again it is difficult to negotiate on an item that is performing correctly.Leg Drive shaft Bellows. Many surveyors will suggest these should be replaced if there is not documentation to say they have been changed in the last 2 years. It is good advice but again it can cause a problem at negotiation as an owner may say that the bellows are fine and not causing a problem. The same will apply to shift cable bellows.The above items are those which unless clearly understood can result in you not buying a yacht or powerboat which is basically sound. Take the time to understand the above terms. Surveyors are professionals who are being employed by you to find problems. However they sometimes do not take into the account the purchase price and the fact that some of the defects found can be expected for the price being paid. At the end of the day sensible negotiation should prevail. A satisfactory outcome is normally attained with 99% of our sales.Take the time to understand the surveyors report. Often we are negotiating after survey with buyers who do not really understand the surveyors report. Take the time to read the report carefully so you can get an overall view of the vessel you are buying. It is all too easy to reject a boat only to find that the next one is the same and it has cost you another survey to find out. A good broker will have driven the boat and should be able to give you some sort of service history.If the survey is not satisfactory its usually worth discussing the areas of concern with the surveyor and the broker together as often problems can be solved by re-negotiating with the owner.The above comments are based on several years of selling yachts and powerboats. They are not set in tablets of stone and you may take them with a pinch of salt after all we are selling the boat. However they are points you should be at least aware of. Boating is great fun but a boat is not a car. Boats experience harsh conditions and do not always gleam like a new pin and we sometimes do not see faults in the same light as those who have never experienced them before. If you are not sure about the meaning of some of the technical terms pleas do not hesitate to ask we are more than happy to explain the significance of the terms used above. Surveyors can also be found in the Yellow pages under the heading Marine Surveyors Marine Surveyors:Steve Booth 0418 622 455Richard Partridge 0416 210 660Sandy Schofield 0412 244 908Phil Pilcher 0408 221 735Weaver Marine 0402 485 328 David Copley 4446 4660P & F Kershaw 0427 990 446 Gavin Clarke 0418 442 515Marine Assess 93680277David Holmes 0412 918 289Peter Burge 0425 249 709Warwick Thomson 0409 243 328 Both Boat & Engine:Alain Francqueville 0409 999 344Peter Kysil 0408 289 600 Engine Assessors:Jason Bott 0418 427 474Bill Lacey 9997 6106 If you are unsure of which surveyor to engage it often helps by speaking with a couple of surveyors and seeing whom you feel comfortable with. If possible you should be present at the survey, ask whatever questions you wish, remember you are paying the surveyor for his professional assessment of your proposed investment. Sydney Boat Sales and its employees do not recommend surveyors, do not contract surveyors for you, are not responsible for your decision to buy the boat based on your surveyors report, or any defects not noted by the surveyor.
The Slipping
This allows the boat to be pulled out of the water so the under water inspection can be carried out. Slipping costs – this will allow the surveyor to inspect the boat out of the water- $9 per foot of length (can vary). Try and find out from the broker what he/she thinks of the boat. There is no point in slipping a boat if there are known defects, which may be irreparable, or prohibitively expensive. However, when we list a boat we try to assess it, but we are not always fully aware of the total condition, so always be prepared for the unexpected. At the end of the day sensible negotiation should prevail.
Moorings
Public moorings are available from Waterways; Waterways are generally speaking very helpful, ask them for the mooring waiting list. Waterways Sydney can be contacted on 95638511. It is not always possible to get a mooring in the area you want. If this is the case you may want to use a marina mooring, until a mooring is available in the area that you want. You will not be able to get a mooring without a boat. If you do obtain a Waterways mooring you may have to lay a mooring. This involves a Waterways Officer taking you to the area where your mooring will be and providing you with a map marking the position of the mooring. You will then give the map to the Mooring Contractor. He will lay the mooring for you. Moorings are not transferable if you sell your boat and do not buy another all you can do is ask Waterways to let the ask the next user of the mooring if he wants to buy the block and tackle from you. Moorings have to be serviced once a year. Particularly where they are sited on busy waterways, as the chain and shackle will wear out due to constant movement. Call Gladesville Bridge Marina for a quote on laying a mooring on 91812014.
Marina Moorings
Call Gladesville Bridge Marina 02 9181 2014 for a mooring quote. Marina moorings can act as a stopgap whilst you wait for the mooring of your choice to be allocated.
Documentation
We provide you with all the paperwork necessary to register the boat in your name.
Encumbrances
We also provide you with a certificate, showing that there are no monies owed on the boat. This is obtained from the NSW office of Fair Trading- not always possible from other states. We also obtain a statutory declaration from the owner’s stating that they own the boat and are selling it with full title. If there are monies owed on the boat then we will organise payment on behalf of the owner.
National Boat Registration
If the boat is Australian ship registered then an encumbrance check can be obtained from the Australian Maritime office. Normally only boats that are capable of passage making are Australian registered.
Ownership
In NSW registration papers are not proof of ownership, that is why it is necessary to obtain a statutory declaration from the owner confirming title. Title is passed to you by the signing of the Bill of Sale.
The Big Day
This can be a bit nerve wracking. You have been through a fast learning curve, it is finally at an end, and you now own a boat. The broker will ensure that the boat is as you inspected it. If you have never driven a boat before then get some lessons-your broker will advise of suitable persons who can help in that area. Ensure the broker has given all the documentation necessary to register the boat in your name, the keys, and of course-the boat.
What next?
Boating is great fun, but to ensure you fully enjoy your experiences on the water, never be afraid to ask questions. It is a very different environment to that on land. A marine professional will always be helpful and polite to those who admit the limitations of their knowledge.
After Sales Service
The majority of the boating industry is professional and qualified. Unfortunately the nature of our industry attracts people who are not necessarily fully aware (working on boats would be fun!) of the specialist nature of the work involved. Ask your broker whom he uses to carry out repairs. I only recommend companies or individuals I have used myself. Try and be explicit with your repair instructions. For mechanical repairs always insist the repairer take the boat for a test drive after the repairs are carried out. With shipwright work it is better to break large repairs into a series of small jobs; they are easier to cost.
Safety – Be Prepared
Always remember that whilst boating is great fun, you need to be fully aware of safety procedures. A boat, particularly a powerboat is not the same as a car. It is not wise to just jump on board start the engines and head off at full power. Take the time to learn a little about your boat. Always carry safety equipment, some tools, a torch and spare fuel. A good fire extinguisher is a must on any boat. The boating world is awash with stories about boat owners who go out completely unprepared, and come back from their drama-ridden day a blubbering wreck, with wife in tow heading for the divorce solicitors.For a fee you can join Sea Tow – members get free towing. I highly recommend their service – contact them on 02 91813777. Preparation is a prerequisite for happy boating. The wind and sea are no person’s servants. The final bit of advice is concerning resale. Keep all your receipts, keep your boat, clean, tidy, and uncluttered. We all like to know a little of the history of the boat. Particularly on older boats. Well, thats about it. There are books upon books on boat buying, and a million more words of advice from your best mate who insists you buy the same sort of boat he had, to the “expert”, who knows everything. All I know is that I love boating and wether you buy a boat for $2000 or $200,000, you will too.If you are buying a boat from an owner or broker and want some independent advice you can always email me on des@sydneyboats.com.au Desmond LastSydney Boat Sales